Handle Thought with Care: An Interview with Jan Seale

 Interview by Ebony Sago

Awarded the 2012 Texas Poet Laureate designation, Jan Seale has been writing for over 40 years and continues to make waves within the literary community. Seale was born in Pilot Point, Texas. She graduated from Waxahachie High School, attended Baylor University, received a B.A. from The University of Louisville, and an M.A. from North Texas State University in 1969. She has written nine volumes of poetry, two books of short fiction, five books of nonfiction, and several children's books. For 16 years, she was the South Texas editor of Texas Books in Review. Jan has held several workshops all over the country including in New Mexico, Washington, Oregon, and of course, the Lone Star State itself.

Jan Seale’s many accolades include The Yale Review, Texas Monthly, and Newsday and she has received of a National Endowment for the Arts Fellowship in Creative Writing. She is a reminder to budding writers that remaining consistent is the key to achieving anything in this world. Jan Seale teaches several seminars for creative writing and memoirs both nationally and in the Rio Grande Valley, where she currently resides. Seale and her late husband, Carl, are the parents of three sons and grandparents of four grandsons.

How would you describe your origin story as a poet? What are your first memories of reading and writing poetry? Which people, teachers, and poets were most influential to you at the beginning of your writing career?

JS: Very early on, I became acquainted with poetry. I was something of an autodidact, teaching myself because I was sickly as a child with TB and spent a lot of my early childhood on bed rest. I remember a picture book with bird illustrations and accompanying poems. I read the poems over and over and can still recite some of them today. I remember reading one of the poems and saying to myself, “I can do that too,” putting the book down and getting busy composing a poem on my Big Chief tablet. I had a recording of Lewis Carroll’s “Alice in Wonderland,” which I played over and over until I had memorized the poems there. When I was about 9 years old, I made a booklet of my poems. All my poems had rhyme, and for some reason, I wrote mostly in iambic tetrameter, even though I had no idea what that meant. It was an innate sense of how English poetry was supposed to sound.

My father loved poetry and often quoted whole poems in his role as a public speaker. His father, my grandfather, also loved and quoted poetry. Poetry came with the territory!

My teachers were always kind when I showed them a poem, but we were not encouraged to write poetry as part of our classroom work. And sometimes I was teased by classmates and family members because I wrote it. But I had a buddy who liked to write poetry. We would often exchange poems, appreciating each other’s efforts.

As for influential major poets, I would list Robert Frost, Mona Van Duyn, Audrey Lorde, and Maxine Kumin as some of my favorites.

What topics or issues frequent your poems? Have those changed over time? Do you have any favorites?

JS: My topics, issues, and subjects have certainly changed over time. When I was a young adult, I wrote about birthing and then parenting my 3 sons and about being a woman, as one wave of feminism was sweeping our society. The more I taught young people, the more interesting they became to me, and I would often write a poem about a classroom incident or an encounter with a particular student. In recent years, I have turned to nature, particularly the plants and animals of my unique territory—the Rio Grande Valley of Texas—as well as the history of the region and the current immense problem of migration.

Some might wonder why I am not issue-oriented in an age when universal problems seem to be more prevalent and serious than ever. It is not that I think world problems are unimportant. I do think other poets may be more adept at addressing them than I, but I consider my fortes to be story, nature, human nature, spirit, and humor. I like dealing with awesomeness, believing that there is still much virtue and goodness in the world, that the natural world is full of surprising aspects, that serendipity and happenstance are there to remind us we are not alone and that we certainly cannot predict an inevitable future. 

I can really respect your outlook. How would you describe your writing process when it comes to poetry? How do you know when you are ready to draft a poem? How does the drafting, revising, and editing process work for you?

JS: I am very practical about my writing process—maybe because I have always been busy with family, teaching, and doing readings and did not have a life where I could “wander lonely as a cloud” (Wordsworth) and dreamily spend hours in poetic composition. I have ideas at odd moments and usually grab a notepad and write a line or two, or just some words that will suggest to me later, when I have time, what it was I thought might work as a poem. (I keep a notepad and pen in every room of the house, in the car, in my purse.) These notes may become part of the poem, or they may simply be triggers to an entirely different idea later.

I keep a folder with the notes of ideas I have made randomly during the day and every now and then I will lay them all out on my desk and realize that I have had preoccupations that repeat themselves and that will go together in a certain way to form the nucleus of a poem. I may have a quote of a person in the grocery store, or a child’s innocent observation, or some funny typo on a pretentious internet utterance. I may have noted a deeply savage incident, a moment of gripping awe and soulfulness, a marvelous action of an animal or plant. These are to be wondered about, perhaps elaborated on, or at least shared with someone out there who might connect with the idea or emotion.

One way I have enjoyed working is determining a major emphasis for a collection of poems. Thinking about a major subject, and then enlarging on it in a group of poems is very satisfying to me. I have done this with several books. My first book, Bonds, was formed with poems on relationships, Sharing the House was filled with poems about parenting, Nape is focused on matters of the Spirit, The Yin of It concentrates on women’s lives, and The Parkinson Poems journaled through my caregiver role for my late husband. And my latest book Particulars: poems of smallness groups poems into subjects about little items such as stamps, keys, insects, seeds, and coins. That was lots of fun to write and has proven a hit in readings, especially with people who say they do not like or understand poetry.

As for the actual writing of poems, some come easily in one sitting; others take years. Most I complete in a few days or weeks. It all depends on the subject matter. Sometimes I only know a thing or two about what I am writing about, and I need to meditate, observe, do research, or question a while before it becomes clear to me why I am trying to write such a poem. Other times, there is a clear call in a magazine, such as “We want poems about stepchildren” or “retribution” or “being old.” TPA is such an opportunity. I have really liked being a part of TPA, especially during the pandemic. These invitations to submit may be the impetus for saying something that the poet might not have thought about otherwise for a poem.

The first draft is just a skeleton of an idea. If I find myself picking at each word and line before I go on to the next thought, I try to stop that, hurry on to see what else the poem needs. This may or may not work, depending on the subject.

I may make 3,4,5 drafts before I feel satisfied that it is the best I can do. Then I will type it, make a printout, look carefully at it again, read it aloud, lay it aside for at least a few days, read it aloud again, and perhaps think of where I might want to send it for the possibility of publication.

I have read your poem "Seasoned Love" on Texas Poetry Assignment, which was simply wonderful. What do you recall about the inspiration for this poem? How does it reflect the choices you regularly make in crafting your poetry on the page? How did the aspects of shape, line, music, comparison, and balance come into play? Were there any new craft choices you made?

JS: The rationale for writing “Seasoned Love” was directly tied to an event, my second wedding, this time to my childhood friend John Brown. He and I went through our childhood and teenage years together in the same small Texas town. Then we went our separate ways, with marriage to other people and three children each. After our first spouses died from lengthy illnesses—his wife from Alzheimer’s, mine from Parkinson’s Disease—we renewed our friendship and decided to get married. We wanted our wedding to be special, so we invited 105 of our friends to an early evening wedding, with dinner and dancing afterward. “Seasonal Love” was read by my adult grandson as part of the wedding ceremony.

As to its form, I wanted it to be plain, so that everyone at the wedding would have no trouble understanding it from the first hearing. The lines are short, so that there’s space between the thoughts for listeners to take in the ideas. It does not use unusual metaphors, but purposely plain comparisons between “seasoned” (read “older people’s”) love and young love. So, there are gorgeous sunsets (as well as sunrises), full-scented blossoms (not only buds), and morning moon (as well as romantic rising moon).

I wanted it to pose a question at first—What happens when older people fall in love? Then there is the argument or rationale through citing metaphors that defy the cliches of the new moon, rosebuds, sunrises, etc. And finally, I wanted to put a spin on this story by saying what the couple intended to do with their love, that is, pass it on to life around them.

The lines alternate in dimeter and trimeter, partly because they read aloud well, and the voice is a rather formal one—because the poem will be used in a formal setting. The use of the third person plural identifies the “two” as in a picture frame presenting their story.

I would have had no idea that story was behind a piece like that! Are there other experiences in workshops or readings or publications beyond Texas Poetry Assignment you want to share?

JS: I have attended many workshops on writing, especially those centering on poetry. A decisive one was in 1978 when I attended the Aspen Writers Conference in Colorado, a group of 50 poets from all over the nation gathered for two weeks. In those two weeks of living, studying, and playing together, we broadened our aspirations and experience. I have also attended poetry workshops in Washington, Oregon, Texas, New Mexico, and North Carolina. In later years, I became an instructor in some of these workshops!

Probably my most valuable workshop experience as an attendee was the seminars in creative writing which I took during the time I was an undergraduate at the University of Louisville.

What were your earlier assumptions regarding publishing and how did those change over time? What is your opinion on self-publishing?

JS: I began to publish a little in my 20's, but surprisingly, it was not poetry so much as magazine articles about baby care! At the time, I had my children, staying home for a couple of years when they were incredibly young, then teaching for a year or two, then having another one, with the cycle starting over. I was just eager to express myself in written words any way I could, and I needed the money from magazine articles, so I wrote and sold such pieces as "All About Diapers" and "Economically Expecting." All that while, I was writing poems, such as I had throughout my time in college at Baylor and the University of Louisville.

After I had my three sons, we went back to graduate school and that is when I saw the possibilities of publishing poetry. Early on, it was advantageous to have many poems in print in magazines and journals before submitting a manuscript to a printing press. That way, when the poet sends a full manuscript to a publishing company, the editors can see immediately that the poet has been vetted by a suitable number of other editors/judges. I used WRITER'S MARKET to identify various markets for the subjects I was writing about, such as music, families, and nature. My first published poetry book was BONDS, from riverSedge Press, a new press at the university where I was teaching. The editor let me have a hand in figuring out which poems for it and I also got to designate a wonderful illustrator for it. Over the years, I have had 4 different publishers for my poetry, and another couple for my prose.

As far as self-publishing is concerned, it is a much bigger enterprise than it used to be. Seems like everybody wants to be "an author." Self-publishing works best on autobiographical "telling your life story" prose. There are some publishing companies offering to "co-operatively" publish you, lots of scams out there. It pays to be careful. Also, other kinds of books--non-fiction, fiction--may be easier to market as self-published than poetry.

One endeavor of self-publishing that my late husband and I really enjoyed doing was a series of children's books and classroom plays on neglected Texas history heroes. We did six, varying the subjects: 2 children, 2 Black, 2 white, men/women. We had 6 easy-read books and a classroom set of plays featuring these individuals, with songs (my poetry, his musical notation) and posters. We sold these books in kits to elementary schools all over Texas for about 10 years.

It is fun to self-publish, in a way, because you have complete control over your writing, i.e., how many copies there are, whether there are illustrations, what the cover will be. Right now, one of my sons and I are self-publishing a book of photographs--his, with my poems written to match. Its title is BORDER BIOME (very regional) and there will be 100 perfect-bound copies, which we will mostly give away to friends and interested people. I have done one other like this, with another son--a professional photographer titled “VALLEY ARK.” We did this one in 2005 and it is about out of print, but we had a fine time with it and sold lots of copies as well as donating some to nature stores, parks, etc.

One other thing...A writer friend told me something long ago that I believe is true, that is, all writing is good for all other kinds of writing. A poet should not be afraid to write prose; it is not going to ruin their poetry-making organ, and many times that prose is what financially sustains the poet in them! I am thinking now of 2 poets who do this switch very well, Wendell Berry and Christian Wiman.

What advice would you give to young people who are interested in reading poetry, writing poetry, and publishing their work?

JS: Read a lot of poetry by different poets. Appreciate the ones from the past that you learn about in school, not discounting them because their language and treatment are so different from modern poets. Then read modern poets. But do not revere them just because they are in print and popular. Read them to see if they are being true, if they are understandable, if they are earnest and wise and humble with their subjects, if they speak to you, move you with their words.

Write a lot but do not feel you must put every poem out there. After a while, spread out your poems and see what is important that comes up over and over. That is what you were meant to write—at least at the time. Certainly, consider whether you will be accepted, read, published, and invited to present but do not write just for those reasons. Write because you must. Write because you are thinking, thinking about a subject that is drawing you to it. Write to challenge yourself with a form, an idea.

Write for the sheer pleasure and excitement of the activity.

As for publishing, although there are some notable exceptions, I would not advise young poets to self-publish whole volumes, or even chapbooks. Start by sending your work to literary magazines that take poetry and other places like anthologies of certain subjects. For poetry journals, first study them to see what their likes are, and above all, follow their rules closely for submitting. Treat submitting to magazines and anthologies as a business, taking time to study their guidelines, then sending your poems in a timely way, and—especially important, keep good records of what you send where and what the outcome is.

What does the range of your publications look like? Have you written/released any individual projects or had your work included in any anthologies that you would like to share?

JS: I have 12 poetry books, 2 short fiction books, 3 essay books, a textbook, 2 biographies, and 8 children's books.

I have lots of poems (and a few essays and short stories) in anthologies. Publishing in anthologies is very satisfying. For one thing, anthologies are about something in particular--a place, a habit, a common emotion, an aspect of nature, a literary movement, etc. Anthologies often have wider circulation and better backing by their presses than single-author books. If you can write a successful poem on the advertised subject, it is quite possible for it to be published in an anthology. And these credits look good when you approach a publisher about a total book of your poems.  There are lots of listings of desired poems for anthologies in Poets and Writers magazine.   Every month I go through the classifieds and mark pertinent markets that I want to target with my work.  It is an absolute must with me. Additionally, online mags are now a huge market for poets.

How would you distinguish contemporary poetry from poetry from earlier eras?

JS: It seems to me that some, not all, of modern poetry is purposely difficult to understand. It can be pretentious, scattered, and posturing so much that it loses all relevance to an audience. And so, it really does not have an audience, only that of other poets who read it for some accidental novelty it might be transmitting, or so that they may see if they can do better.

Some of this scattershot of modern poetry stems from the ease of printing and distributing the printed word. For example, I do not know what the answer is to such nonsense as single unrelated-in-meaning words spread out on a page and called a poem. Most of us are not willing to take the time to get inside the head of the stranger who writes this with the notion that there is a great idea, thought, mood, or endeavor here that is worth lingering over. If anything, it might just be drug-induced.

It is surprising that the rhyming of earlier poetry, so wonderful to the ear and brain, has been adopted by modern hip-hop performers who depend on it for cheap, shocking, often vulgar, and nonsensical utterances. Free verse, of course, has a noble history and will continue to shape much of modern poetry. Our language is rich and there for the taking. And there is still a compelling argument for forms like sestinas and villanelles, as well as places to publish such. I wish some modern poetry would not tease, and presume the intelligence of the audience by making itself so abstract, subjective, and dysfunctional, as to be a turn-off to ordinary readers and hearers. These are the folks whom we leave behind, to poetry’s detriment.

I would hope that novice poets will be daring but not silly, experimental but not purposely puzzling. Be true to yourself and respectful of one’s audience. Handle thought with care.

If you had to recommend one or two Texas Poetry Assignment poets to other readers, who might you suggest?

JS: I think I will forego this question. I have enjoyed poems from many of them over the past years we have been doing this. I have private favorites, but all are friends, and I admire each one who has chosen to participate.

Lastly, if you had a chance to ask a question to a poet you admire (living or dead), who is the poet and what would you ask?

JS: I would like to ask Ogden Nash how he responded personally to the criticism that he was not “a serious poet.”  

Ebony Sago is a poet, writer, and graduate student at Angelo State University. She currently resides in the Central Texas area and is a lover of any and all literature. Ebony has self-published two collections of poetry and is presently working on a novel.